The problem with *i and *u in Semitic

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Akkadian active participles in G-stems have CāCiC.
"Is malik perhaps from *malk with an epenthetic vowel? It is very reminiscent of dutch melk 'milk' which by many people is in fact pronounced [ˈmɛ.lǝk] rather than [ˈmɛlk]."

If speaking strictly on general phonetics, English speakers by contrast never pronounce "milk" with an inserted vowel between l and k and I personally pronounce it /mɪl̴k/, although I recall oddly enough that a German speaker once suggested to me when I was still in junior high that "milich" is sometimes sung instead of normal milch. On the other hand, English film is pronounced /fɪlɪm/ by some of my relatives, evidently in order to break up two consecutive resonants.

Etymologically speaking though, *h₂melǵ- 'to suckle' explains "milk" (note the word-initial laryngeal) and it can be safely said that it has nothing to do with Semitic *{mlk} 'to rule'.

"It might, if we assume that all i were in fact *ǝ [...]"

However this would create a very unlikely vowel system since vowel systems around the world tend towards a vee-shape of /i/, /u/ and /a/ at the very least or, alternatively, a centralized system of /ɨ/, /ǝ/ and /a/. Depending on whether you accept my ideas on correspondences on Mid IE (MIE) and Semitic or not, it seems to me that the Semitic vowels and syllable structure are properly reconstructed.

In fact, if I may be permitted to ramble on this stuff for a bit, based on these considerations, *i and *u lying in non-accented positions and closed syllables in Proto-Semitic strike me to be non-peripheral /ɪ/ and /ʊ/ or, in effect, schwa-like. Particularly so if Semitic *šidθu ['ʃʷɪdθʊ] 'six (f.)' becomes MIE *sʷeksa ['sʷɛksǝ] while *sabʕatum ['sæbʕǝtʰʊm] 'seven (m.)' becomes *septam ['sɛptʰǝm] respectively where both *i and *u in these positions is being reflexed as MIE . Naturally, *sʷeksa and *septam would take the next millenium to evolve into PIE *sweḱs and *septm̥.

Etymologically speaking though, *h₂melǵ- 'to suckle' explains "milk" (note the word-initial laryngeal) and it can be safely said that it has nothing to do with Semitic *{mlk} 'to rule'.

Of course, MIE *Xamelg- 'to suckle' has nothing to do with that Semitic root, Glen. Phoenix's comparison was made on phonetical grounds, not etymological ones.

As far as long vowel typology goes, it's common for them only to be allowed in stress'd syllables.
(This gets me wondering if the idea — I forgot whose — to derive triconsonantal stems from biconsonantal would work better if prefixes were included.)

I can't really see the motivation for *a > *aː / _Ci however. Usually that environment should result in something like *æ, and while lo vowel quality distinctions are derivable from length distinctions (eg. British English *a > æ, *aː > ɑː) I'm not aware of the opposite direction being attested! An epenthesis *aCC > [aCəC] > *aCiC should be more likely to induce *aCiC > *aCīC, and that pattern's separate existence rules out a later shift of length from *i to *a. Theoretically, epenthesis + length shifts could have occur'd before *ī was [iː], but given that we're only dealing with Arabic here, that has implications for proto-Semitic that just don't fly on this alone.

And yes, before you say it — an original allophonic distinction between a shorter allophone of *a in closed and longer in open syllables is plausible; what I find difficult to explain is why it would be reinterpreted as phonemically long only before non-epenthetic *i.
I think Glen was just being thorough about 'to suckle' and wasn't implying that I thought there was an etymological connection.

Looking back at it, yes this lengthening of the vowel does seem very odd. But if this explanation doesn't work, then I really don't understand why only Ca:CiC occurs, and not Ca:CaC or Ca:CuC.

Glen's argument that it would create an unlikely vowel system is of course strong, and I'm aware of it.

So let's say that on purely typological reasons my hypothesis doesn't work. Then we still have a rather bizarre vowel distribution which I cannot explain. I'm curious to hear what kind of explanations other people can come up with.
I can offer perhaps a partial solution...? It seems to me that vocalism in Semitic is intrinsically related to syllabicity and accent. Perhaps if one reenvisioned the short vowel as originally occuring only in closed syllables in Pre-Semitic, one might get somewhere (eg. *šidθu and never **šīdθu where a long vowel here would be "double heavy", being both long and in a closed syllable.) So the opposition of *CaCiC vs. *CāCiC may be underlyingly one of earlier *CaCCiC vs. *CaCiC. This is a suggestion to play with at least.
Tropylium: "And yes, before you say it — an original allophonic distinction between a shorter allophone of *a in closed and longer in open syllables is plausible; what I find difficult to explain is why it would be reinterpreted as phonemically long only before non-epenthetic *i"

In a form like *CiCaC- or *CiCāC-, I can imagine the *i being a reduction of former *a, *i, or *u in a pretonic syllable, if we accept that rightmost heavy syllables are always accented.
Of course there are exceptions to this table in verbal morphology (fu`ila, fuu`ila, faa`ala...), but in nouns it's hard to find any.
Yeah, I have so far refrained from the verbal morphology because it isn't as elegant. I suspect that Arabic verbal morphology had too much analogical leveling to be of any use. It might be worth looking at the vowel distribution in Hebrew and Akkadian for example though.

Because it'd be hard to imagine a situation why nouns would develop different phonotactics from the verb in a regular manner. :D
Hmm - Vox seems to have eaten most of my post. What I meant to say was: exceptions include Taa3uun "plague", Haanuut "shop" (<Aramaic?), jaamuus "buffalo" (surely a loanword), miizaab "gutter" (<Persian?). And it would be interesting to add diphthongs ay, aw into the picture - no native words with CVCawC, for example, and only u is allowed in CVCayC.
Also, before you look at Berber morphology, have a look at Kossmann's arguments for three distinct short vowels in proto-Berber, based principally on the preservation of an a vs. schwa distinction in Tuareg and Ghadames (noted by Prasse); on template-conditioned labialisation in much of northern Berber, reflecting *u; and on Zenaga reflexes which in some contexts distinguish all three vowel qualities in environments corresponding to the schwa of northern Berber.
[this is good]
It is funny that you should mention Kossmann. I just finished reading his article on exactly that. For his class on Berber linguistics I'll be writing a paper on the glottal stop in Zénaga in nominal morphology. It's going to be a lot of work, but pretty exciting. :-)

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